When does cynicism cross a line, or is it even cynicicism?
To my lovely lovely friends who ocassionally peruse this blog, I have a question to pose. And I would like an honest opinion.
I do not like huge organized events where “Christians” help the “less fortunate.” I will even go so far as to think that they are not effective because the people doing the serving leave feeling better than the ones that received the service. I know (I know okay) in the dim corner of my smoky mind that this is not always true, but I still feel a cringe when I hear advertisements that seem very “Look at us- we’re doing something awesome!” I feel really convicted that the life of Jesus was not that, at all. People showed up and received help because he was doing something real that people believed in, I certainly don’t think they stuck a flashy poster on the message board for Galilee and its surrounding areas.
Church marketing these days has taken a decidedly trendy turn. Sure, we want people to come, but WHY do we want them to come? Are we effective or do we truly teach the gospel when we say come because we have XYZ or we do XYZ. It almost seems as disingenuous as the guy who sells holy water on TV. I know people there care about Jesus, understand some of his teachings, so why do we have to sell him? If we were living the way we are supposed to be, showing the kindness we are supposed to show, would we have to? Would we have to have large organized events that are just as much about attracting attention as they are about reaching people. Because as humans, we have to admit, WE HAVE TO, that our deep down intentions are not as good as we make them out to be. And when we examine that, do we then have to examine how we can be different and TRULY the way God intended us. How much does that strip away and how much does that leave of what we have today. Do we need “outreach” or can we just, everyday, reach out, and have a real relationship with groups differing from us that might see a real long term transformation. The church seems to largely view success in the world’s terms: money and numbers. Would we need the bells and whistles if we didn’t do that?
I would really like some differing perspectives here. Part of me feels cynical and judgmental for feeling this way, and part of that just thinks that’s good ol’ guilt and that at some point transformation has to come without feeling bad about it not always being how you thought! Please share! 
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Sometimes, it’s a catch 22.
Like, if we don’t advertise, and people just show up, it still gets all of that attention and all of the bells and whistles.
THough I do think that some churches hold these big “LOOK AT US” events, to get numbers and money. I think some churches look at outreach as an investment.
I for one, don’t like it, and I’m sure you know am as cynical as you. but, sometimes I have to step outside and look in the window. IF it is being done in Christs name, and people are being saved.. can we help but love it?
But are they being “saved,” as in they won’t go to hell, or really shown the true ways of Jesus. Shouldn’t we find this important? I feel like it COULD be like saying Taco Bell is Mexican food. It pretends it is, but it’s really not.
I must say I believe it comes from the heart of the leaders within churches. Yes, you do have people/churches that say come look at what I’ve done. But thankfully our God looks at our hearts. Usually the leaders set the tone for giving and serving. If He sees that people are doing what they do based on that “look at me” mentality, then he will judge that one day. We must try to focus on our own lives and do what we are led to do to serve others. We must think of ourselves as humble servants to humanity and not heroes.
Hmm, I think it’s intersting after being part of larger churches for the last 8 years or so that so much focus goes on church marketing. Hey, advertising is great as I know I’ve been desperate to find good churches in the past so you never know who will hear about your church through a flier or website or whatever.
But I think the focus becomes less sometimes on what we do as individuals and more what the ever so wonderful church can do. For example, I’ve had the response when I’ve told people about my accident “well I hope you put a prayer request in to church”, as if those are the only prayers that are answered and people also seem to fixate on church attendance as being the answer to all problems. That’s easier then – we don’t have to go to any effort to visit or spend time with people.
My church has large numbers, but I have felt so lonely there sometimes that I have cried. Numbers aren’t everything, hopefully they’re a reflection of a great, healthy, growing environment. But sometimes not.
ok. so, i like what everyone has said. but i sincerely agree with andy on his last staement that said…”if people are getting saved…” now, this is what i interpretyour esponse to be. (correct me ifi am wrong) you question whether or not they are REALLY saved bc of what the church (or organzed body of believers) has shown them. right? like, somehow, these newly saved people may have been given false information or shown the beauty of chrst thru rose colored glasses or that they may have received the news throug an “outreach” program that COULD have only been aimed at numbers. perhpas some organized bodies stared out with the wrong intention from the beginning about Christs word and what it truly means to die in Christ that He may LIVE in us…but dnt you belive there is a large percentage of people(church starters) who didnt begin tat way? that maybe they really DO have a heart for God and that getting people to Christ…well, ltes be honest, its hard! no, we shouldnt have to “sell” jesus to people. but in addition to our daiy example, we might need to show them a little extra incentive. you may forget…non believers are usually non belivers for a reason. if they have not fallen away from the church for their own reasons, they may just be cynical and skeptical of it all. i am not tying to suggest that the end necessarily justifes the means if the means are falsely placed in front of you and carried out with wrongful purpose. ( not necessarily sinful, bc some of these organizations might not believe or recognize they are doing it all wrong. and if the people keep coming, what else is the organization to think? ) each person’s knowledge and realtionship with jesus christ is his or her own. growing it…cultivating it…harvesting it…sharing it. even if the orgaization is teching the ways of jesus thru means by which you might not necessarily agree…i truly dont believe it was ever the goal (of MOST churches who claim jesus christ as their lord and saviour) to lose sight of teaching the word of God to people. the basic mission statement involves this message somehow. if the seed is planted…and the faith is there…do you think god cares about how it got it there? just another pespective to offer. love you.
Well, I am not saying they aren’t “saved” in the traditional sense that they will not go to hell. I am saying they will realize how much they have missed when they get to heaven and see what being a Christ follower is truly about- and since many rely on church- not the Holy Spirit or their own understanding- to guide them, they will miss out. And yes, we can be judged for that. Like I said before, it’s like Taco Bell “Mexican” food. Jesus didn’t need an additional example, he just was. I think that if the church hadn’t conditioned itself to humanity and rather grounded itself on the teachings and principles of Jesus, it would be world’s different. It’s like what Ghandi said “Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I DO think God cares when situations like the Crusades happen for this reason- enculturation of believers to be what the kingdom (not the kingdom of God) wants it to be. That is a large scale example but I think it happens on a small scale every day here. Man, I really want to read Pagan Christianity now. Lol, then I can have more specific examples of why the church acts the way it does. I feel so stupid but I know my proof is out there. And it’s not about condemning others. It’s about sharing the lessons we learn. But there is some anger and sadness that comes into it when I know they know what their reasoning is(other than actually creating disciples), that is inevitable I think. And don’t forget, God is a jealous God, so he’s probably going to be mad if his peeps are taking anything above the importance of his name!
I have seen a lot of people get ‘saved’ in all the hoopla and emotion of the sort of church that I used to go to. I think maybe it’s just the start of the journey… God will get them alone and get serious with them and I think that at least acknowledging that they want that commitment is good.
I think the danger is to think that the hoopla. lights, charismatic teaching, cool people to hang out with etc is the most important thing. That salvations don’t count unless you can add them to a spreadsheet and talk about how many people your church led to Christ.